Saturday, April 3, 2010

Part One - Foreward, Introduction - pages 1- 9

Read Hosea so as to have some context.

The way I see it the Bible is full of stories.

Meaningful stories for sure: but none the less, stories.

Jesus loved telling stories too! In fact, story telling was the entertainment medium of the day.

In the New Testament there are numerous stories that tell about a persons conversion. From the lepers to the thief on the cross, there are stories that tell of people coming to believe and know Jesus as their savior. Lives changed.

??What is YOUR coming to Jesus story?

One of the things Christians like to do is group themselves together, those who are like minded with similar values and beliefs. They find others who like the same 'flavor' of Christianity as they create church. For me, the problem with this is that it creates a culture of exclusivity and when someone comes into the group that acts, looks or sounds different, rather than embrace them human nature tends to convert those 'outsiders' into thinking and being just like the collective group.

??Can you think of a time when you experienced a similar response that Steve gave to John? Which part of this story do you relate to the most?

A wise man (Wade) once said to me, "We cannot begin to understand God, so why do we try?"

On page 6 Steve hits the nail on the head: Referring to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, he says that thousands of pages of theology have been written trying to nail down what all that meant.


??So why do you think so much time and energy (and conflict) is given to trying to understand the magnitude of God? Especially in light of the fact that Jesus told us to come to him as a child?

16 comments:

  1. Sample Posting! :) If you have something to respond to, just click on the Post Comment link and type away!

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  3. Jere's coming to Jesus Story:

    Raised in a Christian home. Remember asking 'Jesus to come into my heart' at Sunday School with a really nice teacher that smelled good. That's all I remember.

    Assumed I was a Christian all my life. Believed in God, went to church, felt guilty when I was hung over at church, or smoked pot, ate acid, but didn't really know what being a Christian meant other than obeying rules.

    Then my senior year in high school some young life leaders showed me something different. They spoke in tongues, which was weird, and they seemed to love talking about Jesus and they liked us high school students.

    What they showed me was the beginning to understanding the being saved by saying the sinners prayer wasn't all of it. There was more. But I still missed some key points. Guilt was still a factor.

    Got married. Yikes. The first 5 years were rough. I wanted more of God and saw others that lived with God in a different way but wasn't sure how to get there.

    Then in a Bible study I read the book by AW Tozer - The Pursuit of God.

    Somehow this book communicated to me in a way I understood: God made me, loves me and wants me to love him. He knew I would never be able to measure up to his holiness so he came to earth as Jesus (the trinity is another conversation) to show us how to live, and then pay for my sins by death, and then is resurrected.

    Because of Jesus, I am not a slave to sin, (in my opinion sin is whatever keeps us from having a relationship with him) and can stand before God blameless because of what Jesus did for me.

    From that point on my relationship with Jesus grows and grows, just like my relationships with my husband, my children and family.

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  4. Jere's answer to:

    ??Can you think of a time when you experienced a similar response that Steve gave to John? Which part of this story do you relate to the most?

    In high school, once the young life guys got a hold of me, I was pretty arrogant and pious. My dear friend, Cindy, was the victim of my arrogance.

    I sent her 'Last Days Newsletters' from Keith Green's ministry. Problem was Cindy had no faith background at the time.

    It almost ruined our friendship.

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  5. I don't know if this is what you are looking for so correct me if I am wrong.... There was a section towards the end of the Introduction that talked about how C.S. Lewis wrote two books about pain...one when he was single, one after the death of his wife. Steve describes how different these two books were and this got me thinking a lot. Our lives, our feelings, our emotions, our thoughts, WE change so often and So dramatically sometimes that to get stuck in ONE way of thinking or ONE way of living is just so ignorant and unproductive in the lives we are living.

    I think of how quickly I change my mind about certain things or ideas that I have about people. Dead comes so unexpectedly, LIFE changes drastically...but then these ideas remind me of how constant God really is! How though WE change...He remains not only the same, but ALWAYS full of the Hope and Peace that we seek so often!

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  6. I do not remember praying the sinner's prayer as a child, though I am pretty sure that out of fear for my young soul, my older brother did have me say the words around three.
    I was little Christian without a doubt until I was ten and responded to an alter call at a Greg Long concert. I just wanted to be sure. Plus, I got to pray with Greg Long. During the prayer session I became pretty sure that I was already a Christian and I was wrong in responding to my interest in meeting Greg Long. This became especially clear when my dad found me in the fellowship hall praying with trained staff and he joined us and started crying.
    When I was twelve I became disappointed that I had no other life to compare my God loving life to. I thought I would be a better Christian if I had known something different to prove this way was better. But I didn't, I went to church, a Christian school and participated in youth groups in multiple towns. My story is no story in the conventional sense.
    I did not come to know God in one spectacular event or moment, but in a series of hard or distraught moments throughout my young life. I did not doubt that God was real or if his love for me was real. I kind of think came to know God in spite of my Christian upbringing.

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  7. In response to Hosea, I want to recommend a particular song called "Beloved" by a band called Tenth Ave North. I heard it with Hosea on my mind and it brought me near tears.
    Okay, *to tears.

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  8. Love of my life
    Look deep in my eyes
    There you will find what you need
    Give me your life
    Lust and the lies
    The past you're afraid I might see
    You've been running away from me

    You're my beloved
    Lover I'm yours
    Death shall not part us
    It's you I died for
    For better or worse
    Forever we'll be
    Our Love it unites us
    It binds you to me
    It's a mystery

    Love of my life
    Look deep in my eyes
    There you will find what you need
    I'm the giver of life
    I'll clothe you in white
    My immaculate bride you will be
    Oh come running home to me yeah *now*

    You're my beloved
    Lover I'm yours
    and Death shall not part us
    It's you I died for
    For better or worse
    Forever we'll be
    Our Love it unites us
    Find More lyrics at www.sweetslyrics.com
    and it binds you to me yea now now

    Well you've been a mistress, my wife
    Chasing lovers it won't satisfy
    Won't you let me make you my bride
    You will drink of my lips
    And**taste new life

    You're my beloved
    Lover I'm yours
    Death shall not part us
    It's you I died for
    For better or worse
    Forever we'll be
    Our Love it unites us
    it binds you to me

    You're my beloved
    Forever we'll be
    Our love it unites us
    And it binds you to me
    It's a mystery

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  9. I think most people would agree with you, Bethany, in regards to coming to know God inspite of one's upbringing.

    I also think that it is when life is hard, when our defenses are down, when we have no place let to turn, that God's open arms embrace us and invite us to experience him in a new way.

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  10. About Brenna's post - we are constantly bombarded with ideas that challenge what we believe. And then, as Bethany noted, we go through all kinds of experiences that change us and re-shape what we knew to be true.

    Several years ago my brother challenged me to write down all the things I believed to be true. It's a good exercise. I wrote it in my Bible.

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  11. As for the Sinner's Prayer... All I remember is getting on my knees at grandma Jod's house when I was around 4 with dad and Kalie. Dad lead the prayer and we followed with seriousness and conviction...well as much as a 4 & 3 year old can have. That momentwil foever e with me,but I do not remember the feelings or where my thoughts were. When I was quite a bit older I prayed the sinners prayer at ever NCF or Athy Creek service in hopes that it would make this miraculous change in me... but I never felt what I was expecting. I know I have a relationship with Christ, it just developed SO much differently than I was expecting as a child.

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  12. Brenna, I think you hit on something - it's not so much the prayer (because really, what do you understand at 3-5 years old - but rather as you grow to understand what relationships are like with earthly people, that concept can transfer to what it means to have a relationship with God.

    A lot of importance has been given to the sinner's prayer - but I think coming to Jesus is a lot more like a journey.

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  13. ??So why do you think so much time and energy (and conflict) is given to trying to understand the magnitude of God? Especially in light of the fact that Jesus told us to come to him as a child?

    I must admit, I don't get the deep, hard to understand things that theologians write and speak about. I like the simple things of God.

    But I think that for the most part, mankind (remember the tower of Babel?) has been trying to 'one up' God.

    God created each person with a unique way about them. So I guess that we all get to do things in unique ways. I have to work to keep from judging those whose experience with God is different from my own.

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  14. I agree with what mom said about the sinners prayer...I can't imagine that saying that prayer is the key to salvation, but rather where your heart is at. I remember saying that prayer more than one time in my life, but it has been the experiences in my life, the hard times, the lessons learned that have brought me to the Lord and these are what remind me of my salvation.

    I was talking with Aaron the other day about how there are some people in this world that the Lord uses to make examples of, people who are not saved and will never be saved. I had/have a hard time with this because it is saying that these people never have a chance to be saved or experience God. It gets down to the question...does God choose us, or do we choose God? I think of people like Hitler and BIn Laden, etc....I was telling Aaron that I was nervous that I know I love God, and I have this desire to be closer to him, how do I have reassurance that I have been chosen by him? What if I am one of the ones he wants to make an expample of?

    His response was so powerful...He told me that he would not have started a good work/desire in my heart if he was not going to follow through with it. This gave me peace and I will remember it when I have feelings of doubt.

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  15. Kalie, what a neat response from Aaron! Whenever I have doubts, concerns, or fears about Christianity or my faith, it is often the reassurance from someone wiser that God only gives us desires He plans to follow through on; maybe those "examples" you're talking about are people who have no interest in knowing the Lord. Just an idea.

    Jere, I completely agree with you about liking the simpler aspects of the Lord; I know He created me, I know He loves me. Sometimes, when challenged by someone who doesn't believe in the Lord, by best answer is simply that my faith is enough. I LIKE not knowing everything, I take real comfort in knowing He will protect me and that He has a plan larger than I am. How lonely would it be if we, as humans, truly were the most powerful beings on earth, let alone in all space and time? However, at the end of page 4, Sherwood writes, "In the process [of examining the formulas of how people come to faith], I hope we will find the Gospel to be both less simple and even more beautiful than we've previously thought or imagined." Perhaps this is foreshadowing just how deeply we'll be able to delve in fellowship and scripture throughout this book. I'm also wondering aloud, maybe I have taken what simple aspects there are to the Lord for granted for too long.

    I grew up going to church every sunday with my family. When I was younger, my Dad's job changed every 2-3 years, so until I was 10, I think we went to a couple congo churches, as well as a few other denominations. My parents raised my brothers and I with what I've always viewed as a "liberal Christian" upbringing. At age 12, we'd been living in a Boston suburb for 3 years and my brothers and I all went to Christian camp for the first time. My older brother always felt he went too late, but Ben and I were hooked. Everyone at camp was so welcoming, friendly, loved hiking and boating, and encouraged questioning the Gospel- I never felt forced to know the Lord. After 4 summers as a camper, I was accepted in to the Leadership Development Program, a revamped CIT program in which 24 teenaged guys and girls spent two entire summers together studying scripture, learning to lead Bible studies, and playing outside in God's beautiful creation. I can honestly say those were the best two summers of my life! If I wasn't a Christian before, I most certainly was those two years, and was blessed to have the fellowship of my camp family extend throughout the school year. Once I got to college, though, my faith walk pretty much halted for the most part, with the exception of a few uninspiring Bible studies. I often feel now that I was closest to the Lord and sought Him most passionately when I was younger, as if my faith walk has been backwards. Not to end negatively/selfishly, but overall, I am really grateful to you all for coming up with this idea. I'm already excited about having literature to read and discuss with such awesome women, and cannot wait to see where this journey takes our group

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  16. Its great to read everyone's heart felt postings. Ah...

    When I was about 21 or so, I clearly remember struggling with salvation. Was I really saved? How did I know I was saved? (LOVED Aaron's response by the way.)

    I would DO everything that I thought was right and TRY really hard not to 'sin.'

    But then I would (usually partaking in some kind of drug) and then feel like crap.

    I HATED myself and feel separated from God.

    It has taken years for me to have the confidence to KNOW that I was 'saved.' This confidence came with the understanding of GRACE.

    I guess the questions we should ask:

    1. Is my heart longing after the things of God? Do I have the 'spirit' of God? Galatians 5:22-25

    The Spirit is there to cause things to happen in peoples' lives that bring them more in tune with God's purposes on earth (and beyond). When the Spirit starts changing someone, it shows as a growth in character, a change in their way of life that is good for the people they live among.

    2. Do I actively love God and others?

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